So my 69 authenticity has come into question Need some advice / help

[bigmanjbmopar]

Yes my car has some 68 parts on it, not sure why but hey in the 80's owners still had access to junk yards with plenty of sattys and b bodys still in them. So my car has a changed out interior, why I don't know it is obvious it's supposed to be saddle tan and now it's black, during the redo to black the rear seats turned into 68 deluxe seats the dash pad is a black one from a 68 (I think looks better) and the door panels are black 68's.

So knowing this it still gets my brain going wondering if the rest of the car is 69 or 68? Is it possible for someone to go to these extremes to make a 68 a 69? Vin sequence is on the radiator support and rear fender rail, but would someone back in the day go to these extremes to make a fake?

Here is some background as to why one would think maybe this is a 68, When I got the car in 2010 it was missing the front bucket seats, among many trim parts, the rear bumper was from a 68 although the reverse light wires were just dangling there, and the 727 has the 3 prong NSS and is wired right at the starter relay. We know the car was in an accident as the rear passenger 1/4 was replaced, with a factory one from the old San Leandro,Ca parts warehouse. (Sticker still on the inside of the fender On the drivers side with the correct sequence # there is chipped away paint around the rear tail light bucket down to metal, the other side is down to the original paint,(now has a 80's earl scheib respray) 383 was not original but correct for the year. 727 seems to be correct so does rear end.

so if you were to stand there wondering you would think ok well maybe the wreck was worse off than it appears and not only were fenders replaced but radiator support and dash as well? but none of this adds up? is the car a 68 and made to look like a 69 but some different 68 parts used an a redone interior? wtf? confused yet? lol

I mean holy cow would someone do that I guess they could in reality,

So with the interior changed out with mostly 68 parts and the car with a 68 bumper (now changed to a 69 with reverse lights) could look from first glance from an experienced eye to maybe be a 68 turned into a 69.

But on the other hand there are many things that confirm that it is indeed a 69 RR.

1. the vin decodes with the options that are in the car I.E. buckets, console, AC, light group etc.
2. the vin decodes to the true color of the car inside and out, T5 ext T7 and saddle tan int.
3. Although the car had a 68 bumper on it, it is obvious that the factory wiring is well intact for reverse lights and with the 3 prong NSS and relay wiring I find it hard to believe someone in the 80's would do this much change.
4. The records I do have from the previous owners, tell the tale as the car was non op for many years from late 80's to mid 2000's with a short op time in mid early 90's.
5. Under the undercoating the T5 color is alive and well.
6. Dash is T5/T7 under the black it currently is.


Someone please tell me I am just being paranoid and not to let skeptics get to me.

Vin:

RM23H9E136923









Fender tag:

My 1969 Road Runner Fender Tag Decoded
Decoding of Fender Tag: Botttom to Top, Left to Right

Code Description
E63 383-4 Barrel
D32 H-D A-727 TorqueFlite Trans
RM23 R = Plymouth Road Runner M = Medium 23 = 2 Door Hardtop
H9E H = 383 330HP OR 335HP 1-4BBL 8 CYL 9 = 1969 E = Los Angeles, CA, USA
136923 Sequence Number '136923'
T5 = Paint Code: Fire Bronze Metalic
M6T Trim Grade/Style/Color M = Medium 6 = Vinyl Bucket Seats T = Saddle Tan
T7 Upper Door Frame: Saddle Bronze
131 Date Built: 1 / 31 / 1969
107837 Order Number: 107837
A04 Roof Type OR Color: Basic (Radio) Group
C16 Console w/ Buckets
C55 Bucket Seats
G33 Left Hand Outside Mirror - Manual / Chrome
H51 Single Air /w Heater
T5 Unknown Bronze Fire paint code
L31 Hood / Fender Mount Turn Signal
M21 Roof Drip Rail Moldings
R21 Solid State AM / FM
26 26 in. Radiator
END End of Codes
A01 Light Package
J25 3 Speed Variable Wipers

 

[69hemibeep]

Looks to be a 69 with 68 parts. Now take a deep breath and exhale

 

[Big John]

There's several key differences between a 68 and 69.

In the body, the quarters look similar, but are quite a bit different. 68 panels are shorter and the rear panel where the quarter welds to (behind the tail light) is different to allow for the length.

You car being built after 1 Jan 1969, the rear panel the bumper bolts to will have a oval cut out around the gas filler. 68 and early 69 are round.

I looked at some pics and I got a glimpse of the head liner... 68 and 69 is different... Yours is a 69.

To answer a question, yes, it is possible to make a 68 into a 69. I helped someone change a drag car (change in class). It's a lot of work though.

Your car is a 69. Tell whoever is whispering in your ear that it's a 68 to STFU.

 

[paladin2511]

Do you like your Roadrunner? Than that should be enough. I think matching numbers are great . The really good part is owning a piece of history that you can get out and drive, and remember a certain time when life was good.. It's like a member of your family, love and enjoy it and screw the others who are jealous of your treasure..My Roadrunner is more of a time machine, it doesn't have all matching numbers and parts... But it very close to the one I owned in 1974...And when sitting in it and having a beer I can remember a certain brown eyed girl sitting next to me and life is GREAT.. So enjoy something few others have and wish they did.

 

[Basketcase]

try to remember the days before Year One and the like, the days before the internet. You had to go to the salvage yards for parts. If I had a crappy bumper on my '69, and I found a beautiful '68 bumper for a good price.....And I used to see a '68 road runner at a local cruise with '68 Charger seats. Same deal, his were shot, and he found a wrecked Charger with good seats. I did the same think with my' 68 Charger. The upper dash pad has some awful hairy cover on it, and underneath the pad was shot. Found a good '69 pad for cheap.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

That is all I can assume that back in the 80's they decided to change out tattered interior and found a car with a black one. all in all I like it, that's why I stayed with it instead of going back to the saddle color, which is great but was not in the budget to do and do right. Over time I will get new door panels because they need to be replaced anyway, but will be black. so the only things that are not original is the motor and interior not bad for a real road runner

 

[MsBeep]

Looks to be a 69 with 68 parts. Now take a deep breath and exhale

My thoughts exactly! My 69 has many 68 parts also and yes, it was not uncommon practice to use whatever was in the parts bin at time of assembly. Just my :cents:

 

[jays69bird]

My 69 was an early build so it did have 68 parts on it,my horn (original) was black,the original door buttons were black and no head rest.

 

[A12]

It would take a lot more work than just a rear bumper to make me think your '69 road runner was made from a '68 road runner <-- '68 ROAD RUNNER being a key here. First thing I would look at is the floor pan for original factory bucket seat mounting as the '68 ROAD RUNNER didn't have a bucket seat option. Next both fenders and rear quarter marker LIGHTS would have had to have been replaced with rectangular reflectors and the wiring harness would still have the marker light pigtails. A small detail would be that the front bumper parking lights would go out when the headlights are turned on for the '68 models. (I think this was due to the current draw for the side marker lights and the headlights together....only my theory). Next the upper and lower dash pads would be different, the fuse box and access to it on the '68 is different than the '69, the door lock buttons are toward the rear on the '68 doors versus the '69 and '70's. The spare tire hold-down in the trunk is different on the '68 versus the '69, (the '69 has a bolt as a pivot for the wing nut hold down rod). The under hood fender attachments to the radiator support are smaller and if there was a emission label with the idle speed and ignition timing still there or an outline it would be between the washer fluid bottle and the radiator support on the passenger's side on the '68 as there was still room to place it there on the smaller '68 mounts (where the front hood adjustable bumper posts are). The '68 bulkhead wiring junction on the firewall is setup slightly different than a '69 (see a wiring schematic and compare). The '68 hood latch I think is slightly different too(??). Did you say that you think the radiator support was changed? Is this because you can't locate the VIN numbers stamped on the backside? LA cars that I have seen have the VIN stamped on the TOP driver's side and not the backside driver's side like the Lynch Road and St. Louis B-bodies. I could never figure out why some B-bodies had the coolant label much farther toward the center of the radiator support until I got my '69 LA built GTX and found the rad support VIN stamped on the top. If it is a '68 rad support then it wouldn't have the VIN on it anyway but the order or whatever the number is in the lower right corner of the fender tag (a good reason a '68 fender tag is important for matching numbers boasting LOL). There are a few more, smaller details but I think this should help you as stated above breather easier.


MikeR

 

[gunnar]

A12, that's a lot of attention to detail. Keep teaching, I'm humbled.

 

[A12]

Thanks gunnar. I found most of this out when I bought a '68 road runner as a parts and body panel car for my '69 Lift-Off-Hood road runner and knew I had to restore it and not cut it up into pieces. I had so many 1969 parts and electrical items (including 3-perfect original wire harnesses) that I had collected for the LOH that I soon found out the differences. I have to look for the poor before photo of the '68 road runner and you'll understand how I discovered all of the differences between the '68 and '69. Here's the after '68 road runner:

 

[A12]

Radiator support on my LA assembly plant '69 GTX has the last of the VIN stamped on the driver's side TOP not the backside like the Lynch Road and St. Louis B-bodies.................anyone else with a LA car with the VIN there?

 

[Basketcase]

beautiful car A12

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Yes that's were mine is, it was under the radiator coolant sticker which got replaced but I shifted it to the right to keep the stamp in view for my own piece of mind. I wish we could get the old records from the L.A.A plant that would be cool.

 

[Budnicks]

Most all the differences have been covered already...

Like most all the rest of "many cars back in that era", were just another used car, not really worth much $$$$,
unless it was some rare Hemi car or an A12 or Factory SS car, that were worth some coinage, BUT
the "keeping it all #'s matching correct stuff was not the big worry of the day", people changed parts,
some the next day after it left the dealers lot, & used what they had or what was available to them...

Just people putting parts on that were available probably, 68 parts maybe were what the people already had, who knows...

IMHFO don't sweat it, it's not worth the extra effort {unless you want a 100% OEM #'s matching car}, enjoy your ride...

Hell my 68 RR has a bunch of stuff that was in 69-70, buckets, an A12 lift off hood, 70's style 6bbl & air-cleaner, even latter CEI ignition,
it's what I like & want, I've been down the 100% all #'s OEM correct road many times, not what I want to do now, been there done that already, relax have fun drive her & enjoy her, don't sweat the little details, your car isn't really a #'s matching car anyway
{unless that's what you want}, it's built to your taste now...

have fun & drive her....