No Pedal

[Big John]

This is the bench bleeder kit Big John is talking about.


But like he said, you CAN do it without it by simply cracking the two brake pipes at the MC and letting the air out just like using the bleeder valves on the wheel cylinders.

Exactly. Bleeding a master using the kit shown is the only way I've ever done it.

I have metal tubes cut off a junker that I use.

I do not believe that bleeding the MC per Cardones instruction will work at all.... In fact, I've never even heard of it being done that way.

Factory Service Manual Section 5, page 12 & 13. Ref. Figure 7.

 

[Big John]

:huh: Yeah I guess that's right, UNLESS it was not closed off completely and fluid slowly passes by under brake pressure. Then you'd have a slowly sinking pedal, would you not?

Yes, a slow, sinking pedal would probably be right.

Generally, those rear hoses will fail by leaking at the crimped area. The front hoses on disc brake cars (early Ford Taurus was notorious) will fail like that.... Usually from someone hanging the calipers from the hoses.

 

[RR383]

DO NOT REMOVE THE BRAKE DRUM THAT WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I CAN NOT EMPHASIZE THAT MORE!!!!!

The drum is a press fit to the hub. If you can get the drum by just pulling on it, you have a problem.

Factory Service Manual, Section 5, page 5. "Removing Front Brake Drums" See step 4.

I'm a little confused about spindle/hub arrangement you speak of. The pic shows what this 70 came with. This is right front...which came right off. So again why the resistance on the left drum?

 

[RR383]

yes, a slow, sinking pedal would probably be right.

Generally, those rear hoses will fail by leaking at the crimped area. The front hoses on disc brake cars (early ford taurus was notorious) will fail like that.... Usually from someone hanging the calipers from the hoses.

i have no pedal....so i will drop down to the local napa in the morning and obtain a bleeder kit.

 

[RR383]

Exactly. Bleeding a master using the kit shown is the only way I've ever done it.

I have metal tubes cut off a junker that I use.

I do not believe that bleeding the MC per Cardones instruction will work at all.... In fact, I've never even heard of it being done that way.

Factory Service Manual Section 5, page 12 & 13. Ref. Figure 7.

John, could link me up once again with a PDF copy of the 1970 Factory Service Manual....thanks.

 

[Big John]

I'm a little confused about spindle/hub arrangement you speak of. The pic shows what this 70 came with. This is right front...which came right off. So again why the resistance on the left drum?View attachment 10209

That should not have come off that way. I have no explanation why it did other than someone screwed it up in its past life.

The hub and drum... Think of it as one piece.

Chances are you'll want to start looking for a new drum.

 

[Big John]

John, could link me up once again with a PDF copy of the 1970 Factory Service Manual....thanks.

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=109

 

[droptop]

That should not have come off that way. I have no explanation why it did other than someone screwed it up in its past life.

The hub and drum... Think of it as one piece.

Chances are you'll want to start looking for a new drum.

Some of the late replacement drums came in two pieces like this. IIRC they were distributed through NAPA. My guess is you have a replacement on the right and the original on the left. Take the spindle nut and bearing out, and it should pull off in one piece.

 

[Big John]

Some of the late replacement drums came in two pieces like this. IIRC they were distributed through NAPA. My guess is you have a replacement on the right and the original on the left. Take the spindle nut and bearing out, and it should pull off in one piece.

Wow... I never heard of that one.

Are they still selling them like this??

 

[droptop]

Yes, I have a set that I am planning to use on my silver car.

 

[RR383]

Some of the late replacement drums came in two pieces like this. IIRC they were distributed through NAPA. My guess is you have a replacement on the right and the original on the left. Take the spindle nut and bearing out, and it should pull off in one piece.

That is very interesting information. Odd how at some point the right front needed a replacement. Would like to know the rest of the story is this case. I'll get the factory front drum off this morning and check for condition. thanks again gentlemen.

 

[RR383]

Update...just finished bleeding the MC by conventional method with tubes immersed in each reservoir. Reconnected hard lines and still NO PEDAL! I'm talking zero resistance...same as before.
What direction do I need to be in now...all wheel cylinders are closed. NO suspect LEAKS
Further, pulled left front brake drum to verify condition/findings. No issues. Note: It was the drum with bearing assy. original.

 

[Big John]

Did you bleed the brakes at the wheels again?

Does it get hard after you pump the brakes a few times?

 

[Basketcase]

that's kinda personal don'tcha think there Big Mike?

 

[RR383]

Did you bleed the brakes at the wheels again?

Does it get hard after you pump the brakes a few times?

No...I paused at that point...will continue with bleeding at each cylinder...Although one might think there would be some pedal...even if it was spongy or when depressed halfway it would start to firm up??

John, the scenario hasn't seem to have changed...in others words yesterday when my wife was at the pedal and I was at each bleeder specifically at the rear drums it never acted like there was that needed push when the MC was actuated. You say...

 

[Basketcase]

just a thought...just because the master cylinder was remain...doesn't mean it's good. been there done that.

 

[droptop]

Before I did anything else, I would invest in one of these.

http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-bleeder-and-vacuum-pump-kit-69328.html

 

[Ranger]

I find it easier to bleed them manual. I have a bleeder like that and almost get carpel tunnel trying to bleed them.
I don't know why these cars seem to be such bastards to bleed. Maybe open the rear bleeders and go have lunch. Once you start getting some fluid out (gravity bleed) the pedal should firm up some.

If you crack one of the pipes at the MC, do you get any fluid leaking with pedal pressure?

 

[RR383]

Next step contacted tech support @ Cardone explained situation. Tech thought there may not enough stroke in the pedal travel to cover and uncover internal ports. Fact is, its a fixed dimension, geometry doesn't change. I verified I had the correct P/N for a manual brake drum set-up. In the end not much help. I did get the P/N for a new MC.
So, this afternoon I'm thinking I'll open up all bleeder screws to allow some gravity draining while I'm waiting for the new MC. Your thoughts?

 

[Big John]

It's very possible that the Cardone tech is right. I've tried to bench bleed on the car with varying success.

Gravity bleeding is a good idea.