Mini starter on 400CI motor

[vso737]

Well, it NEVER ends...……….that's what keeps me young...……….LOL

I replaced the ignition switch. Next thing to go was the starter. All I get is a loud CLICK.
So, I purchased a RECONDITIONED mini high torque starter. The parts guy could not tell me who the manufacturer is...…….running the numbers, it appears to be the same one Autozone sells, "Duralast Gold".

NOW, I don't get the CLICK but I do get a strong SPIN and still the motor does NOT turn over and I don't believe it is engaging the flex plate at all.
I replaced the stock starter and used the SHIM that the starter had. I suspect that this is my problem. I don't think the mini starter should have a shim at all.

I will have my mechanic's helper work the ignition while I take a close look at the starter.

Any suggestions highly appreciated...………..THANK YOU in advance.

LG,
Mike

 

[quikbird]

If the spin sound is higher and faster than normal you are probably correct that not engaging the flex plate. Two possible causes, bendix not extending the gear, missing the gear. You could pull the inspection plate, and then see if can see it when tries to engage

 

[Russ69Runner]

If you have the old starter measure from the flat part where it bolts to the bell housing to the front of the Bendix. If both are the same then check the gear travel on the Bendix. You might not need the shims with the new starter.

 

[ykf7b0]

I try to stay away from chain store electrical components but I do usually buy at NAPA.

 

[Russ69Runner]

Yes NAPA. Or go with an OEM one.

 

[Ranger]

The parts guy could not tell me who the manufacturer is...…….running the numbers, it appears to be the same one Autozone sells, "Duralast Gold".

They don't call 'em "Don'tLast" for nothing. The only thing I would by from AutoZone is "dumb" parts, like oils, coolants, wiper blades, bulbs, etc, etc.. There is a reason they warranty their parts for life.

 

[vso737]

I try to stay away from chain store electrical components but I do usually buy at NAPA.

I purchased this starter from an INDEPENDENT PARTS store that usually sells items that NAPA carries. They could NOT tell me the brand but the serial number and part number on the starter matches the DURALAST GOLD starter advertised by AUTOZONE on the internet. What I did NOT like is that the one I purchased, $154 total including core charge, is ONLY $20 more than the AUTOZONE starter but mine is a RECONDITIONED one and AUTOZONE is NEW.
I was in a hurry to really compare the two in detail. I did look at them side by side and did take a few pictures. They did NOT look identical but did look like they would both work equally well.
I did NOT turn in the stock starter. It is worth more than the $35 core charge to me. I will NEVER get rid of anything that came with this RR.

That is my plan tomorrow, take off the inspection plate and see how it fits. Will most likely have my 'mechanic's little helper' activate the key and see how the engagement goes.
The builders of my ride put the battery behind the seat and a remote solenoid starter next to it.

I should have tested the starter before I installed it. The stock one I took out tested DEFECTIVE. The Bendix gear ejects but does NOT spin at all.

At today's car show, I substituted my RR with my Model A hotrod. It would have been pretty neat had I entered the RR because the car beside me was a 2018 DODGE and next to it, guys father, had a 1968 completely stock Roadrunner owned by the SAME owner all of these years...…………

We also had the nicest 1972 Roadrunner I have ever seen to date. The owner just had it completely restored after a five year project. Beautiful BLACK paint and he upgraded the entire front end and the 400 CI motor as well.
It specially peaked my attention because my 1969 Roadrunner has a 1972 400 CI motor...……………….I'll try to upload a picture of this car later on.
He has TCI headers and also a high torque mini starter. He told me that TCI is the BEST header to use on a MOPAR. I have HOOKER full headers and mine look quite a bit like the ones he has.

Can't wait to see what my starter issue turns out. Will post the results...………….

Thanks again for the input...…………

LG,
Mike

 

[vso737]

Pictures I took of the starters BEFORE I installed the mini high torque starter.

LG,
Mike

 

[ykf7b0]

I have a mini starter on my road runner that I bought out of a salvage yard in the late 90's. It is an OEM unit that had been removed from a Dodge Dakota and has never failed. It was explained to me the problem with the chain store parts is they are built in a foreign country, usually Mexico or China, with little or no quality control. During the manufacturing process the tolerances get further and further out of spec and these parts end up at the chain stores and are very low quality internally. Some might give service for length of time but most will not. They are produced at such a low lost the chain stores can afford to sell at a lower cost and offer a lifetime replacement warranty.

 

[Basketcase]

and the chain store "remans" only replace what is broke...not worn, and they do not go thru a unit and fix anything other than what will get it to work.

 

[quikbird]

I had to adjust the side of the block on my 440 to get the powermaster starter to tip in far enough to engage the flywheel.

 

[vso737]

I had to adjust the side of the block on my 440 to get the powermaster starter to tip in far enough to engage the flywheel.

WOW, I hope this is my problem but being caused by the SHIM I installed with the mini starter.
¿ DID YOU USE ANY SHIMS ?
How/what modification did you do to the BLOCK?
This starter is suppose to be an exact replacement. I sure hope I do NOT have to remove it and return it. Will find out soon enough today...…………
_____________________
I purchased a mini starter for my Model A. I have a 1960 283CI block with 1968 327CI heads; manifold; and QJet carb. After returning the first one to this speed shop and getting a replacement and having the second one also defective, I just took it to "UNIT 2" electrical shop and they rebuilt it and I have not had any issues since. YES, they do sell a bunch of LOUSY parts now days...………………….

LG,
Mike

 

[quikbird]

Did not use any shims. had to trim the block on the area where the starter sits allow starter to move closer to the flywheel. . also trimmed the case of the starter a little to let it come over as well. secondary problem after that was to make sure the top bolt on the starter was blocked over to make sure the starter did not kick back out away from flywheel. I am also using a Lakewood sfi bellhousing which might be part of the positioning issue.

 

[Basketcase]

it needs a world is flat good ol Chrysler gear reduction starter

 

[vso737]

Did not use any shims. had to trim the block on the area where the starter sits allow starter to move closer to the flywheel. . also trimmed the case of the starter a little to let it come over as well. secondary problem after that was to make sure the top bolt on the starter was blocked over to make sure the starter did not kick back out away from flywheel. I am also using a Lakewood sfi bellhousing which might be part of the positioning issue.

UPDATE: Just came back from the auto parts store. The owner told me the starter is a "DENSO" starter and that he has NO other options.
I took my stock starter to help point out the fact that the STOCK starter has the POSITIVE cable stud on the bottom where the mini starter is at the top which causes interference with the block.
Before returning it, I went to a very reputable generator/starter rebuilding shop across the street from the parts place. The owner told me he could relocate the positive cable stud but NOT towards the bottom and the new locations would also interfere with the block.
He also told me that this mini starter would do the job but that it is NOT a 400 CI MOPAR starter.
So, I got my money back and now starting to shop for a mini starter for a 400 CI motor. I have the HEAVY DUTY block with casting # 3614230-4 which came in the 1971-72 Chrysler product butted up to a "TCI" 1977 TF 727 "street fighter transmission".

Needless to say, I had to remove the plugs and header with the starter in the header again. Did it in 1/3 the time it took last time because now I know the secrets. Still a LOT of work.
LG,
Mike

The owner of the blue '68 RR is the ORIGINAL owner. He's attended 27 MOPAR shows at Wooley Park with it. My '69 RR was suppose to be there.

 

[quikbird]

Nice pics. I think I got my starter from Mancini at the nats when they were on sale. They claim they are completely clockable but that is a false statement

 

[vso737]

Nice pics. I think I got my starter from Mancini at the nats when they were on sale. They claim they are completely clockable but that is a false statement

Thanks,
Log onto YOUTUBE and type in "Oxn harbor car show" and you will see my hot-rod and a real nice video. I feel honored that the guy chose my ride as the feature picture for his video. There's another one done and I saw a drone hovering over our cars so I'm sure there will at least be one other video soon.

I returned the starter because the vendor told me he has no other options.
I contacted the owner of a generator/starter repair shop to see if he could move the positive cable stud towards the bottom of the starter. He could move it to three places but they were all on TOP. The stock starter cable stud is at the bottom away from the engine block.
The repair shop owner also informed me that the mini starter would do the job but that it was NOT a 400 CI MOPAR starter.
Once I got home I contacted 'SUMMIT RACING'. The guy I spoke to informed that ALL the mini starters have the cable stud on TOP. He recommended I use the PWM 9300. This PWM 9300 looks a LOT like the one I returned. The main difference is that the 9300 does NOT have all that black plastic around the cable stud. That black plastic is what was touching the block and preventing the starter upper hole from seating. He claims that this 9300 model was the fix for the problem I was having. He also informed me that if this starter did NOT do the job, the PWM 9463 will definitely work because the mounting is adjustable.
So, I ordered the 9300 and if that does NOT do it, at least now I know that my issue will be resolved...……...just have to spend a little more $$$$$.
LG,
Mike

 

[vso737]

I can NOT understand why the starter I returned had all this BLACK PLASTIC crap that interfered with the engine block to begin with.

Attached is the picture of the PWM 9300 that is suppose to work.

Will find out as soon as it gets here...…………

LG,
Mike

 

[69hemibeep]

If you remove the plastic part there are two posts just like the PWM9300 has and they just clear the block.

 

[vso737]

If you remove the plastic part there are two posts just like the PWM9300 has and they just clear the block.

If you take a close look at the BLACK PLASTIC, the right section TOP comes off but the bottom portion remains (snaps off- had it off and have NO idea why it is there to begin with). There is also a flat copper strap coming off the black plastic.

YES, the 9300 does away with the black plastic but I do NOT think that one can just remove the black plastic on the one I returned. If it was that easy, the parts store owner and his assistant plus the owner of the generator/starter shop and including me, all overlooked it. Hence, they came out with the 9300 model and I still DO NOT know for sure that even this one will work. Will find out shortly when it gets here.

Was reading further on these starters. I like the idea that the end of the MOPAR starter gets centered in the bellhousing. That is the NEGATIVE factor on the 9463 model, it does NOT get centered. The POSITIVE on it is that one can adjust the mounting to clear the block.

LG,
Mike