car market discussion

[sam z]

I'm putting this under tech because it all starts with money, right?
A few things I've noticed and any / all opinions are welcome. A few of my
thoughts on the market for mopars (and all of this is just based upon
observation and opinion as I'm obviously not an expert):

-It doesn't appear that the "recession" has dented the price on what
people are asking for cars. I've been told that the highly collectible models
(hemis, 6bbl, etc) have been hurt a little but otherwise the market has stayed even
on the asking prices.

-I believe people are asking too much for some of these things. Don't get me
wrong, I love my car and am very proud of it, but I don't think a roach coach,
383 average runner with no engine, no paint, tons of rust, needing complete restoration
because its in pieces is worth 7, 8, or 13K. Am I going crazy?

-I'd venture a guess that most people on this forum are roadrunner fanatics and really
enjoy what they own. In other words, a roadrunner is the car. Knowing this,
what is driving the market higher and higher for b-body mopars? I can't imagine that
there are that many people that are passionate about these particular cars such as
the members of this forum.

-Finally, a car is only worth what somebody is willing to pay. If there are members of
this board that think a rust bucket is worth 10k or whatever, I'm not trying to insult those
members. I just believe some of what I'm seeing is getting a little outrageous and perhaps
greedy.

 

[ACME A12]

Like anything...this is somewhat case specific...but...

The high-end cars seem to have taken a hit...refer to my recent post about the beautifully restored B5 A12 that's available on the liftoff hood website for $75K. However, you can look in the most recent edition of MCG and find Hemi cars, winged cars, and other specialty MoPars that are still priced like houses, so they've dropped...but not a ton.

I'd have to agree however that the more basic cars in need of a complete restoration are priced a bit too high; just compare to the GTX currently for sale on this board. I'd much rather pay $15K for that car (might even be tempted to bite on that one if it were an A833 - just not dragging home any more autos - just my preference) than $7K or $8K for some ferrous oxide experiment that's gonna have a leaf spring hanger bust through the floor board when I try to winch it onto the trailer...assuming that they are comparably equipped. That's a no brainer...

As for what drives it, you've answered your own question; greed.

JMHO
:jester:
Ray

 

[69hemibeep]

With that being said the crazy thing is the parts to put these thing back together have stayed the same or have gone up!

 

[Roadcuda]

I agree that the main word here is greed. When Mopars got really big at the auctions, I think it made anyone who is strictly in it for the money think that they can get what ever they want, regardless of a cars condition.
IMHO, what they either don't see, or want to see, is that many of these cars go for high prices because 2 or 3 people deceide they want a car, and don't care what they spend on it. Now, there may be a truely rare car that could bring in the big money, but for the most part I think the prices are more the result of someone getting what they want, no matter what. Because of this, everyone else thinks that is what these cars are really worth, wheather they really are or not. So to them, every car is worth the big money. You see this on e-rag where many of the ad descriptions for parts most always include that magic word to prove it deserves big money, HEMI. It really gets me when I see this applied to something like radios, or any part for that matter. We don't know what engine powered the car a part came out of. For all we know it was a /6 car! Even if said part came did out of a hemi powered car, that dosen't mean that the part is worth more. But some of these people think so, and things will stay this way because of the greed factor. :cents:

 

[Confederate1969]

Ridiculous prices of old Mopars are especially disheartening for a guy my age so I agree on all of this. I've seen some absolute junk yard crap, no engine, no trans, no seats, swiss cheese floor pans (if any), and they will be asking 5-10k. The only people who can afford this stuff these days are the guys that got a lucky job as a FedEx pilot (the big dollar job here in Memphis) or the fellahs who had a good job and retired recently with plenty of play money to spare. I know everyone yells bad economy, but I still see plenty of middle aged / late middle aged fellahs in my area doing this. They are the ones that allow these outrageous prices to continue this way. Otherwise, no one would be buying this overpriced stuff and the prices would have to come down.

I will never be able to afford any of this stuff on the market now. Short of seeing a barnyard Mopar nearby and asking about it (ain't gonna happen) and getting a lucky break, I doubt if I'd ever be able to get my hands on another Mopar muscle car. I consider myself lucky to have inherited the one I've got.

 

[sam z]

Good points guys. I agree with a lot of what has been said. Obviously, I picked my car up fairly recently. As I was shopping around, it would occasionally get discouraging because the prices on some cars were really out of range. I feel lucky that I was able to get a driver for a reasonable buck. I'm also fortunate that I have a good wife that could see this particular hobby isn't getting any cheaper, especially for the mopar crowd. I'm convinced that if I didn't get my present car I'd be priced out of the hobby pretty soon.

 

[jays69bird]

I know when I was first exposed to the car hobby the big buck cars were Duesenburgs,Cords, stuff like that,hand built exotic cars that were always expensive,Plymouths ,Dodges etc. were always massed produced cars for the common guy lower and middle class folks,even Hemi's.Its amazing to see these cars go for these prices,even clones that are admitted clones.Yes greed is driving this along with the I can own this and you can't mentality.The sad thing is alot of these cars are being priced out of range of the true enthusiast like us. However there is a flip side,due to the popularity of these cars items are being reproduced now that even 10 years ago we could only dreamed of.

 

[Basketcase]

when I was looking to replace my fire car a couple years ago, I looked at a lot of $15k and up cars that needed a ton of work. Mine is far from perfect, but after all the cars I looked at, I think I got a pretty good deal. Especially after seeing some of the cars in the car corral at The Nats right after I got mine. There will always be greedy people in any hobby. But there are good deals , it just takes a lot of looking sometimes.

 

[george68hemirr]

chevys and fords are a dime a dozen....mopars where run to the ground and mostly went to the crushers and thats what drove the prices up......in my days growing up you could buy a car for 10bucks.....now junk starts for 2500 and up......its out of control and how bad do you want the car.....people with money to burn is the big problem

 

[3BIRDS1X]

Supply and Demand - when I was young the Mopars were cheaper than Ford and Chevy musclecars. I think it's two things many were used up at a higher percentage and they (Mopars) have more of a following. It's always been anyone can restore a Ford or Chevy but it takes alot of scrounging to redo a Mopar (not so much anymore) but it made the others to be an easier choice for people. I also blame Hollywood for some of it (this is my own personal theory here) but for some reason I feel you see a higher percentage of old Mopars in movies and shows of the last 15 years I could be wrong but I think some of that has caused Mopars to get more of a following. Look at the world of Harleys and what Hollywood has done for them. I'm fortunate I own what I like, have owned mine all for 12 to 25 years each, got them at unbelievable prices (for today not then) but I will never be able to pick up another even if I had the room.

 

[Steve]

I think the internet opening up the availability of these cars to the foreign guys like myself hasn't helped.I wouldn't know where to start tracking a Road Runner down until the Web began,it's a lot easier now.This is bound to have an affect on prices with supply and demand as mentioned by 3BIRDS1X.He also made a good point regaring Hollywood.You would be amazed how many General Lee replicas are over here.
It's all my fault,sorry

 

[mac]

here are my 2 cents. mopar guys seem to like restoring there cars to more of an original look and appearance. when the aftermarket parts weren't available, they resorted to taking parts from donor cars removing those cars from history. that makes the remaining cars more valuable. now with the higher values and the large auction houses inflating prices, the aftermarket steps up with all the goodies to "restore" the high dollar cars.

 

[SomeCarGuy]

People are insane with asking prices. Not just on the cool stuff either.

I gave up looking for another Mopar because of that. Why sink 5 grand or so into making a truck or C body really nice? That is a good ways to another RR, Bee, or Charger, etc. It will take that much to do one of the lesser demand vehicles nice due to the high prices sellers want for core vehicles.

Besides, I have a 69 RR, I don't "need" another car to have fun with.

Asking prices may very well be wishing but I have noticed taht those cars and trucks go unsold so the sellers aren't budging.

There do seem to be a lot more RR's on the market for more reasonable money THIS month than there has been. Only an in person inspection would really tell the tale on if those are good buys.

 

[CWR]

Here is my example. My car is original except for '71 440. Done up very well. Prof appraised for $38000 Canadian. The guy wanted 28K said he was offered lot of things on trade but no cash, I paid 23 K canadian and thought I got a good deal on a drivable looking good car.....He originall was asking 36 K..............I thought a good deal for the money? Am I right?

 

[mcmopar]

I'd say so. But what's really important is if you think so.If you are happy with what you paid for the car that's all that matters. And it is a real beauty, too.

 

[sam z]

Hey CWR,
I really don't know. From the profile pic the car looks sharp. If I'm correct, your dollar is pretty close in value to the US right now (I haven't paid much attention lately, even though I'm right on the border). For argument sake, let's say the money is at par and you spent 23K American.
For ME I would expect a flawless car with next to zero headaches or problems. I wouldn't want to hear from the seller "all it needs is..." you know what I mean? The car is 40 years old and its gonna have it's issues but I think you understand where I'm coming from.

My 2 cents.

 

[CWR]

That is basically what I got (understanding that it is 40 yrs old). I'm happy with the price. I wouldn't say its flawless but very good to excellent quality.considering all the body is original. The price one is willing to pay is always bottom line. The seller here was very up front with me on the car..........The only things I needed were neutral start switch and windshield washer pump and switch. All else checked out by a reliable mechanic I have known for years

 

[CWR]

I think our dollar is only .86 cents to your dollar now. I have looked at prices and cars for a while now. This is the only one in my price range that had solid panals and a non issue engine(no leaks etc) A lot look good but are crap underneath

 

[Basketcase]

I agree. If you're happy with the car, that's all that really matters. I have a blast with mine, muddy 1/4s,scratches and all.

 

[Roadcuda]

I think our dollar is only .86 cents to your dollar now. I have looked at prices and cars for a while now. This is the only one in my price range that had solid panals and a non issue engine(no leaks etc) A lot look good but are crap underneath

That's more or less what I wanted when looking for my car. To put it simply I wanted a car that all I had to do was get in and turn the key. While mechanically it had some small issues, they didn't prevent me from getting it on the road right away. Several people who looked at it , either mechanics for body guys, all felt it was a very solid, virtually rust free car, that they said has all the original sheet metal. I can only take their word for it. I got it for 22K four years ago after seeing most of the cars of that quality going for much more then that at the time, I felt I got a real good deal on it.