727 Acting weird

[Basketcase]

you're kidding...right?

 

[Big John]

Use a test light on the neutral safety switch while you adjust the linkage.

I thought about this last night and waited until today to respond.

I can give you the answer pretty easy... A couple minutes of typing and I'm done.... Then I thought of what I would do if one of my techs at work asked me the same type of question while working on a large project. Again... the easy answer is to just tell them what to do. The harder answer, but the better answer in the long run is to give them some guidance where they can find the answer themselves.

One of the goals of this site when we started it was to pass on information and to help others in learning about their cars. Sometimes we forget that and we just answer questions the easy way. Nothing is really learned that way.

So..... INRI... You've done well here. I'm kind of impressed that you've accomplished this task. A lot of guys would have thrown their hands up and either sold the car or got their checkbook out and paid someone to do it. You seem like you want to learn... and understand that sometimes the best way to learn might not be the easy way.

I'm going to give you some guidance and let you figure it out yourself.

First get your copy of your FSM out (Factory Service Manual). There's a PDF version in our tech section. Get into the electrical section and study the wiring diagram looking at the starter relay and neutral switch and see if you can figure out where the wires run. Get into the trans section and look at the neutral safety switch. Look at the linkage diagrams too. Google "Mopar neutral safety switch" images to see what they look like.

There was a discussion here on test lights v. DMM (digital multimeters) a while ago. Search for that. Google using a test light for electrical diagnosis.

Use the test light directly on the neutral switch while you mess with the linkage. Some trail and error will get you where you want to go.

There... I've done my part on helping you solve your problem. Armed with some more knowledge, you can build on it to help you in the future.... and maybe help the next guy.

I wish you luck and report back on how you do. :cheers:

 

[inri]

Big John,

A million THANK YOUs! Yipee! I don't care what anyone else says about you... ...you're alright in my book!

I did what you said, and fixed the linkage. Car starts right up now while in Park. I haven't taken it for a spin yet to verify the rest of the gears work correctly, but I'll do so later. And I'll post back

 

[Budnicks]

Have you ever or recently done a fluid & filter change & adjusted the bands, 1st/reverse band adjuster is inside the pan & second gear band adjuster is on the outside of the trans, I'd suggest getting a Factory Service Manual if you don't know how to adjust them... there's a really good book, if your interested in any 727TF performance mods

 

[inri]

I thought about this last night and waited until today to respond.

I can give you the answer pretty easy... A couple minutes of typing and I'm done.... Then I thought of what I would do if one of my techs at work asked me the same type of question while working on a large project. Again... the easy answer is to just tell them what to do. The harder answer, but the better answer in the long run is to give them some guidance where they can find the answer themselves.

One of the goals of this site when we started it was to pass on information and to help others in learning about their cars. Sometimes we forget that and we just answer questions the easy way. Nothing is really learned that way.

So..... INRI... You've done well here. I'm kind of impressed that you've accomplished this task. A lot of guys would have thrown their hands up and either sold the car or got their checkbook out and paid someone to do it. You seem like you want to learn... and understand that sometimes the best way to learn might not be the easy way.

I'm going to give you some guidance and let you figure it out yourself.

First get your copy of your FSM out (Factory Service Manual). There's a PDF version in our tech section. Get into the electrical section and study the wiring diagram looking at the starter relay and neutral switch and see if you can figure out where the wires run. Get into the trans section and look at the neutral safety switch. Look at the linkage diagrams too. Google "Mopar neutral safety switch" images to see what they look like.

There was a discussion here on test lights v. DMM (digital multimeters) a while ago. Search for that. Google using a test light for electrical diagnosis.

Use the test light directly on the neutral switch while you mess with the linkage. Some trail and error will get you where you want to go.

There... I've done my part on helping you solve your problem. Armed with some more knowledge, you can build on it to help you in the future.... and maybe help the next guy.

I wish you luck and report back on how you do. :cheers:

John,

I came to this website almost one year ago after purchasing a 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner 440 727 to get to know my vehicle more and other people that share a similiar interest. I grew up a Pontiac kid and owed a 1976 Firebird, 1996 Formula, and 1969 GTO. During my high-school years my dad purchased a 1966 GTO with a 428 4 speed. That's how I learned to drive stick!

I purchased my '69 RR because my dad had always made a few things apparent to me in my childhood: 1) Sandy Koufax (Kufu) was the greatest pitcher of all time, and 2) The Plymouth Roadrunner was my dad's favorite car in his youth. He would talk about that car from time and time, usually after seeing older Rustangs or Camaros. Over the years I got him to give me more details about what he really liked about the RR; the styling, had to be a '69 because he wasn't 100% liking certain things about the '68 or the '70 model. Loved the Hemi engine 426 was the engine of choice, but the 440 6 pac was equally potent.

I'm a bit older now, and so is my dad. So I sold my '69 Goat and found a stroked and built '69 RR in S. Carolina for sale that was within my budget. Having very little knowledge of RR's or Plymouths I flew to S. Carolina to inspect the car. What I found was a solid car, with (2) small spots of rust with a solid powerplant. The car was geared for weekend warrior activity which was just what I wanted. It wasn't the Hemi and 4 speed my dad had talked about years earlier, but for me it was a start.

The car arrived nearly one month later via enclosed transport and my dad was over my house at the time. I had originally set the transport to arrive the following day but God had it that it would arrive sooner. My dad came inside the house and told me that some guy was here to drop off a car, as he looked at me with a puzzled face. I told my dad that I had bought a cheap commuter car for my wife, and that he should wait inside. My dad looked at me a bit strange and proceeded to walk up the back end of the trailer as the driver lowered the rear door to the trailer.

You should have seen the look on my dad's face as the door fully opened and he began to see a red square body wide tire vehicle. As he got closer to the car he looked at it weird and turned to me and said, Rudy is that a Roadrunner? I told him yes dad, I was really hoping I would surprise you and take you for a spin. He continued to get closer but the transport driver got in the car and started it up and the thunder from the engine startled my dad and he moved back with a huge grin.

This car has been great for bonding me and my dad during our new stages of life. I have a small family now, while my dad is knocking on retirements door. It's fun to drive together and have small talk with people that come over. Perhaps this is what is was like in the late 60's for someone who owned one of these great cars?

This car is more about what it represents for me, than the car itself. It represents a dream my dad had back when he was a teenager at the height of the muscle-car era. And it also represents a bonding and vigor for life of two people. My long term goals are to add a beefy 4 speed and a 528 or 572 hemi.

I'm not a mechanic or even a really mechanically inclined person. But, I do believe that by asking lots of questions, sometimes the right question will come up and I'll get a patient person to walk me through something. There's been several members on here that have been helpful to me over the past year and I want to say "Thank You". Believe it or not but there are folks on here that are more auto-layman than I and they too need the support and help of this forums members. PAY IT FORWARD!

So thanks for walking me through the harder parts of the transmission removal and the installation. I learned a lot and will pass on what I know and have learned to others. Just this forum thread alone will help someone with a similar 727 issue.

So enough of my story... ...what about the transmission?

I took the car out for a spin around the block yesterday afternoon. All gears work, except I couldn't get into 3rd. When I am in second and I shift to third, the car continues to pull as if it's still in 2nd. I don't feel any shift between the gears so I'm confident that the transmission is still in second and that I need to adjust the linkage near the transmission pan a little so that I can get third. This obviously is trial and error, but I feel that I'm on the right path. Unless I'm not and need to be pointed elsewhere? The timing couldn't be any better because we're having mid 60 degree days now with lot O' sun!

Once the linkage is adjusted correctly I'll post a short video of the car on here.

 

[inri]

Have you ever or recently done a fluid & filter change & adjusted the bands, 1st/reverse band adjuster is inside the pan & second gear band adjuster is on the outside of the trans, I'd suggest getting a Factory Service Manual if you don't know how to adjust them... there's a really good book, if your interested in any 727TF performance mods

Hi Budnicks,

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into the book. As of now, I've pretty much had my fill with 727's. Just looking to ride it out for a couple of years while I work towards a 4 speed from Passon.

I have a 3rd gear issue that is left. I can't get into it from 2nd. I tried several times going about 25 mph but couldn't shift into it (manual valve body). the trans kept pulling as I believe I was still in 2nd. I feel that I can adjust the trans linkage that is near the pan and I should be able to get 3rd.

 

[mahoney0_00_3]

4 speeds are for high school boys to shift in to 4th and go for a little leg and keep yours hand warm LOL

 

[inri]

LOL! Good stuff mahoney.

I haven't figured out how to get into 3rd yet so I'm still working on that. Hopefully ill have time this week...

 

[Budnicks]

inri if after you get the linkage adjusted correctly & you still have an issue getting into 3rd gear or it slips allot, it's probably the clutch pack is worn, possibly the front pump too... good luck

 

[inri]

I took the car back to the trans shop in Sacramento on Wednesday and spent half the day there with the car on the rack as the transmission pan was dropped and the B&M manual valve body was inspected, clean and then re-assembled. Then we moved over the the trans and air tested the gears and they all worked. So the valve body went back in and put the pan back on for a test.
Started it up, got ran through all the gears with the wheels off the ground but STILL couldn't get 3rd!

I was told that the issue may be with the manual valve body because everything else works. So I ordered a Turbo Action Cheetah Manual SP Valve Body from Summit and had it delivered with a few more quarts of Royal Purple Max ATF.

I was called by the shop on Friday to come down and start it up. I couldn't make it to the shop on Friday so we scheduled for Saturday morning at 8 am. To be honest I was a little anxious if the car was going to go through all gears and work correctly but I was also excited at the possibility of a positive outcome.

This morning I met with the owner of the shop who asked me to get inside the car while its on the rack and turn it on to go through the gears. So I did. And to my happy surprise I had all gears!
He then lowered the car and told me to take it around the block.

I drove it around the block to a pretty isolated industrial street and let on it...BANG 1-2 was crisp and fast, stayed on it and BANG 2-3 was vicious too! The transmission performs much better with this manual valve body then the prior B&M. It's as though the transmission has been awoken! I am loving it and having fun!

Thank you to all those who helped me to remove and then replace the transmission correctly, adjust the linkage and guide me through this. I'm really thankful to have access to a knowledgeable group of Mopar lovers!!

 

[Budnicks]

I took the car back to the trans shop in Sacramento on Wednesday and spent half the day there with the car on the rack as the transmission pan was dropped and the B&M manual valve body was inspected, clean and then re-assembled. Then we moved over the the trans and air tested the gears and they all worked. So the valve body went back in and put the pan back on for a test.
Started it up, got ran through all the gears with the wheels off the ground but STILL couldn't get 3rd!

I was told that the issue may be with the manual valve body because everything else works. So I ordered a Turbo Action Cheetah Manual SP Valve Body from Summit and had it delivered with a few more quarts of Royal Purple Max ATF.

I was called by the shop on Friday to come down and start it up. I couldn't make it to the shop on Friday so we scheduled for Saturday morning at 8 am. To be honest I was a little anxious if the car was going to go through all gears and work correctly but I was also excited at the possibility of a positive outcome.

This morning I met with the owner of the shop who asked me to get inside the car while its on the rack and turn it on to go through the gears. So I did. And to my happy surprise I had all gears!
He then lowered the car and told me to take it around the block.

I drove it around the block to a pretty isolated industrial street and let on it...BANG 1-2 was crisp and fast, stayed on it and BANG 2-3 was vicious too! The transmission performs much better with this manual valve body then the prior B&M. It's as though the transmission has been awoken! I am loving it and having fun!

Thank you to all those who helped me to remove and then replace the transmission correctly, adjust the linkage and guide me through this. I'm really thankful to have access to a knowledgeable group of Mopar lovers!!

great to see you got it sorted out, I have the same Turbo Action Valve Manual body, great choice, good luck & now go have some fun

 

[inri]

Thanks Budnicks

Admin: Let's close this thread!!:cheers:


http://youtu.be/LBDqxZ8JivA

 

[Big John]

Sorry... Not closing this thread.

No reason to. It's a good story of someone learning and overcoming the obstacles. It will pop to the top once in a while and I have no problem with that.

I do wish that people read this (and other) threads completely BEFORE responding though. The problem has been analyzed and solved. I could rant on about that.... But that's for another day.