69 383 original Hemi Orange engine???

[3BIRDS1X]

well you never know, I was four at the time but it was from the original owner who was a traveling salesman in his fifties who got it with air and cruise so I doubt it was a hot rodded thing, factory mishap or not who knows but it's the car I grew up with. One thing to ponder those engines were different colors not just for the customers to feel like they have something special but also to make it easier for the assembly line. take 440's blue ones would have gotten a different carb, fuel pump and dist.? than the orange ones would have had. Easy color codeding for the assembly line. 383 bolt ones were probally more similar between the two except for the carb. If you are putting carbs on the line you were used to putting Holleys on the blue ones so I don't feel its a stretch for a Holley to be an acceptable carb in this case regaurdless. The car is basically in boxes right now but I do have the build sheet I'll see if I can scare it up and maybe someone can tell what the coding would mean for it weather a mistake or not could be but I know what it has as I'm far from convinced and I doubt any of this is cut and dried but restoration rules made by a select few is well........... very corvette-ish :cheers:

 

[moparchris]

My car is in the shop now. 69 coupe, bare bones nothing model. Getting a turquoise engine
for the simple reason I like the turquoise. With all of alterations my car has seen it doesn't
really matter anymore on the factory / OEM thing.

Nice thread, I like all the info and specs.

My 440 might end up black :yesnod:

WHAT????? :toetap:

 

[69hemibeep]

My car is in the shop now. 69 coupe, bare bones nothing model. Getting a turquoise engine
for the simple reason I like the turquoise. With all of alterations my car has seen it doesn't
really matter anymore on the factory / OEM thing.

Nice thread, I like all the info and specs.

My 440 might end up black :yesnod:

WHAT????? :toetap:

I might be swayed by a donut but Ray won't invite me to tag along.

 

[A31PKG]

well you never know, I was four at the time but it was from the original owner who was a traveling salesman in his fifties who got it with air and cruise so I doubt it was a hot rodded thing, factory mishap or not who knows but it's the car I grew up with. One thing to ponder those engines were different colors not just for the customers to feel like they have something special but also to make it easier for the assembly line. take 440's blue ones would have gotten a different carb, fuel pump and dist.? than the orange ones would have had. Easy color codeding for the assembly line. 383 bolt ones were probally more similar between the two except for the carb. If you are putting carbs on the line you were used to putting Holleys on the blue ones so I don't feel its a stretch for a Holley to be an acceptable carb in this case regaurdless. The car is basically in boxes right now but I do have the build sheet I'll see if I can scare it up and maybe someone can tell what the coding would mean for it weather a mistake or not could be but I know what it has as I'm far from convinced and I doubt any of this is cut and dried but restoration rules made by a select few is well........... very corvette-ish :cheers:

I - like you - was just trying to help out the O.P. with the facts as I understand them based on personal experience and research. One may wonder to whom you are directing "corvett-ish" and "restoration rules made by a select few", but if simply being interested in the history and authenticity of these wonderful cars makes one "corvette-ish" then I - for one - am guilty... However, I prefer "MOPAR-ish" ... Rant over...

BTW, good luck with your car! It's awesome to still have it in the family after all these years!

 

[moparstuart]

My car is in the shop now. 69 coupe, bare bones nothing model. Getting a turquoise engine
for the simple reason I like the turquoise. With all of alterations my car has seen it doesn't
really matter anymore on the factory / OEM thing.

Nice thread, I like all the info and specs.

My 440 might end up black :yesnod:

WHAT????? :toetap:

I might be swayed by a donut but Ray won't invite me to tag along. [/quote]
here is you a black one bob

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 9YPyXuNI3Q

 

[Big John]

well you never know, I was four at the time but it was from the original owner who was a traveling salesman in his fifties who got it with air and cruise so I doubt it was a hot rodded thing, factory mishap or not who knows but it's the car I grew up with. One thing to ponder those engines were different colors not just for the customers to feel like they have something special but also to make it easier for the assembly line. take 440's blue ones would have gotten a different carb, fuel pump and dist.? than the orange ones would have had. Easy color codeding for the assembly line. 383 bolt ones were probally more similar between the two except for the carb. If you are putting carbs on the line you were used to putting Holleys on the blue ones so I don't feel its a stretch for a Holley to be an acceptable carb in this case regaurdless. The car is basically in boxes right now but I do have the build sheet I'll see if I can scare it up and maybe someone can tell what the coding would mean for it weather a mistake or not could be but I know what it has as I'm far from convinced and I doubt any of this is cut and dried but restoration rules made by a select few is well........... very corvette-ish :cheers:

I - like you - was just trying to help out the O.P. with the facts as I understand them based on personal experience and research. One may wonder to whom you are directing "corvett-ish" and "restoration rules made by a select few", but if simply being interested in the history and authenticity of these wonderful cars makes one "corvette-ish" then I - for one - am guilty... However, I prefer "MOPAR-ish" ... Rant over...

BTW, good luck with your car! It's awesome to still have it in the family after all these years!

I think we are ALL on the same page here and in agreement that Chrysler wasn't as fussy with what they sold as the restoration crowd is. The Corvette guys have their Bloomington Gold Certification standards and they live and die by those. We, as Mopar guys don't have the same resources as the Corvette resto guys. Chrysler built more and built them as production cars right along side the station wagons. The records for our cars are gone... We depend on self taught "gurus" for our sometimes incorrect info and find that sometimes they don't even have a clue!

It would be easier if it were cut and dry... It's not... To me that makes it more interesting and more fun.

 

[ACME A12]

I think we are ALL on the same page here and in agreement that Chrysler wasn't as fussy with what they sold as the restoration crowd is. The Corvette guys have their Bloomington Gold Certification standards and they live and die by those. We, as Mopar guys don't have the same resources as the Corvette resto guys. Chrysler built more and built them as production cars right along side the station wagons. The records for our cars are gone... We depend on self taught "gurus" for our sometimes incorrect info and find that sometimes they don't even have a clue!

It would be easier if it were cut and dry... It's not... To me that makes it more interesting and more fun.

X2. Well stated, Big. :cheers:

 

[mcmopar]

well you never know, I was four at the time but it was from the original owner who was a traveling salesman in his fifties who got it with air and cruise so I doubt it was a hot rodded thing, factory mishap or not who knows but it's the car I grew up with. One thing to ponder those engines were different colors not just for the customers to feel like they have something special but also to make it easier for the assembly line. take 440's blue ones would have gotten a different carb, fuel pump and dist.? than the orange ones would have had. Easy color codeding for the assembly line. 383 bolt ones were probally more similar between the two except for the carb. If you are putting carbs on the line you were used to putting Holleys on the blue ones so I don't feel its a stretch for a Holley to be an acceptable carb in this case regaurdless. The car is basically in boxes right now but I do have the build sheet I'll see if I can scare it up and maybe someone can tell what the coding would mean for it weather a mistake or not could be but I know what it has as I'm far from convinced and I doubt any of this is cut and dried but restoration rules made by a select few is well........... very corvette-ish :cheers:

I hope you can find the build sheet simply because it would be a great find if it was Holley equipped. If so it would be a great "one-off" find. I can help some on the codes as I have a full break down on mine which will help. Another good source for breaking down the build sheet codes is Galen Govier's White Books. They are available for the particular year you need (1969 of course).
You are somewhat right on your color coding statements. The high performance engines were painted Hemi Orange in 1969 and the non-high performance 2 bbl and 4 bbl engines were Turquoise. The 330 horsepower 383 engine was the largest optional engine in the Sport Satellite for 1969 and was also used in road runners equipped with a/c that year. It was not considered a "high performance" engine and from all accounts I've found was equipped with the same Carter carbs (4616 auto, 4615 4-speed) as those found on the 335 hp high performance 383's.
Holley carbs didn't become standard equipment on 383 engines until 1970 according to all the documentation I've read and, again, NHRA doesn't list a Holley as standard equipment on any 383 in 1969. If a Holley were standard equipment on a 383 in 1969 they would allow it for class racing but they don't. That being said, your car may indeed have been equipped with a Holley from the factory for some strange reason. If so it was an abberation and not the norm. This would be great rarity and a super plus from a historical and collectible point of view if this is true and would be quite an attention getter

 

[Hoosier Bird]

All I can say is that they should have come with a Holley! :acme:

 

[moparstuart]

All I can say is that they should have come with a Holley! :acme:

:loco: :loco: :loco:

 

[A31PKG]

To even further hijack this thread.....

Here are a couple of pics of a "fresh" 383 that was pulled from a wrecked Holley-equipped '70 SuperBee with about 5k miles on it. It was stored for many many years and recently uncovered for our enjoyment. I would give credit to the picture taker, but I do not know his name. You can see from the pics the configuration of the choke and fuel line. If your fuel line is original (and a Holley was used) it should route to the left of the carb as opposed to the right. Also, the choke plate for the carter was flat, with the Holley choke being round and protruding above the manifold as depicted in these pics. If your fuel line and choke resemble these, then maybe.....? Yes this would be a very interesting find, no doubt!

 

[A31PKG]

... We depend on self taught "gurus" for our sometimes incorrect info and find that sometimes they don't even have a clue!.

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark...

 

[moparstuart]

To even further hijack this thread.....

Here are a couple of pics of a "fresh" 383 that was pulled from a wrecked Holley-equipped '70 SuperBee with about 5k miles on it. It was stored for many many years and recently uncovered for our enjoyment. I would give credit to the picture taker, but I do not know his name. You can see from the pics the configuration of the choke and fuel line. If your fuel line is original (and a Holley was used) it should route to the left of the carb as opposed to the right. Also, the choke plate for the carter was flat, with the Holley choke being round and protruding above the manifold as depicted in these pics. If your fuel line and choke resemble these, then maybe.....? Yes this would be a very interesting find, no doubt!

yes for sure 383's in 70 did come with holleys , 440 single and hemis still had carters

 

[3BIRDS1X]

I don't intend to come off as agitated I type fast and really don't have much on-line time so when I post I just spit it out anyhow I know I got the build sheet and I will see what or if my Dad remembers what the details were about it, I know i have the carb somewhere as my dad took the carb off as it ran so poorly and put an AFB on it at one point in time, always kind of wanted to research it more but never have so maybe this will motivate me. My corvette issues well I grew up with my Dad having a 58 and 64 vette and I always scrounged junkyards with him looking for T3 headlight, p-window switches, generators and starters with special dates actually fun times but it all seemed a bit over the top and in that same timeframe Mopar stuff was never like that and I always liked that it wasn't and now it seems like it is. Survivor cars are one thing over the top restos are another and building stuff to please judges, not for me as I have seen it being very frustrating in the corvette world. I used to own a vette also but for the right reasons :drive:
although growing up with all the vette sub culture stuff is actually what got me into scrounging 69 plymouth literature at a young age and that has been a good thing too.

 

[Big John]

... We depend on self taught "gurus" for our sometimes incorrect info and find that sometimes they don't even have a clue!.

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark...

Well... Yes and no.... I think the Mopar hobby has at last realized that there is no hard and fast rules. It took a while though. So much incorrect information has been put out in books, magazines and the internet that we have to sift through the piles of crap to find the truth. Complicating that was when the cars suddenly became worth something to the Barret-Jackson set. When money comes into play, the rules change... the trust starts to disappear and the truth might get buried in a smokescreen of BS. Suddenly we have some guy that used to work in the parts department in a Pontiac dealership getting his ego stroked on national TV and we're told that he's the "guru" and the ONLY one that knows anything. Again we get back to Corvette Bloomington Gold certification being applied to our cars and that it's all black and white... when we all really know it's not.

We're fortunate we have some very knowledgeable people on this forum. The wisdom is given freely and always with the caveat about Chrysler not following the rules. It's a beautiful thing.

 

[Big John]

I used to own a vette also but for the right reasons :drive:

Ahh.. and that's why there's a Tuperware Torpedo sitting in my driveway too! :drive: :drive: :drive:

 

[Roadcuda]

I used to own a vette also but for the right reasons :drive:

Ahh.. and that's why there's a Tuperware Torpedo sitting in my driveway too! :drive: :drive: :drive:

Tu-per-ware Tor-pe....Dohhhhhhh you mean the Bricklin!!!!!!! :jester: :lmao:

 

[mcmopar]

I don't intend to come off as agitated I type fast and really don't have much on-line time so when I post I just spit it out anyhow I know I got the build sheet and I will see what or if my Dad remembers what the details were about it, I know i have the carb somewhere as my dad took the carb off as it ran so poorly and put an AFB on it at one point in time, always kind of wanted to research it more but never have so maybe this will motivate me. My corvette issues well I grew up with my Dad having a 58 and 64 vette and I always scrounged junkyards with him looking for T3 headlight, p-window switches, generators and starters with special dates actually fun times but it all seemed a bit over the top and in that same timeframe Mopar stuff was never like that and I always liked that it wasn't and now it seems like it is. Survivor cars are one thing over the top restos are another and building stuff to please judges, not for me as I have seen it being very frustrating in the corvette world. I used to own a vette also but for the right reasons :drive:
although growing up with all the vette sub culture stuff is actually what got me into scrounging 69 plymouth literature at a young age and that has been a good thing too.

I hope you'll also pardon me if I came across as over the top also. It's just that I've never seen a 69 383 with a factory installed Holley and all the literature I've seen has always denoted Carter AVS carbs as std equipment. Plus hanging out with NHRA stck class racers has educated me in their ways - and they are like hungry junk yard dogs on a piece of meat when it comes to getting NHRA to change their rules on what was and was not factory available.
I'd love to see a crazy deviation like this. If you can post pics that would be great!

 

[A31PKG]

FWIW....and to further the hi-jack.... I have a customer with a 1954 Corvette that has been in the family since new. His father actually won it in a beer jingle contest! The beer was called "Wurther", I believe it was brewed in Maryland... Anyway, he penned the winning jingle and won himself one of the 8 '54 'Vettes that the company was giving away! He then gave it to his son in '69 to drive to medical school. It is my pleasure to be affiliated with such a vehicle.... And, yes, the good doctor is very proud of his car!

 

[3BIRDS1X]

It's all good, I talked to my Dad about it today to see what he had to say, is take on it is he bought the car for my Mom in '71 from the original owner (they had looked at new '69s but it didn't work out at the time) My dad asked about the blue motor and Holley knowing it should be orange and original owner said nothing was ever replaced or worked on. My Dad rebuilt the Holley once had no problem getting a kit the second time he put an old AFB on it that he had. My Dad's theory was that it had to do with being a blue engine or maybe something as simple as the line running out of Carters and putting a Holley, never the less he is 100% sure it came with a Holley and He's been a car guy/drag racer/restoration hound his whole life. I will post up the broadcast sheet for it and the fender tag hopefully in a few days, I will also dig around for the Holley take some pics and post numbers on it and maybe someone can confirm it as intentional or assembly line shinanagins as I'm alitle interested too. The irony is the when/if the day ever comes I get back to it the motor will be orange with a Carter carb as I like the orange and have always had great luck with the AVS's. I recently sold my motorcycle so I now have some car funding finally and look forward to freshening up a couple of my cars. :banana: